difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve

These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. . Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. had writing on the side that said R134a. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. $21 . Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. . What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. ESP when a compressor has frozen. I have just bought gauges. Electric fans do wear out. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Flushed, vacuumed etc. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Crap! Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. I'll put the relay on for that. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. 3 ounces? The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! Your old hoses of course will not fit. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! The value of carbon dioxide is 1. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. . I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . Thanks again. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. This is the part that controls the system pressures. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. This is because R134a. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. That would be the "black death" syndrome. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Please enter a password for your user account. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running.

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